I’m so pleased to present this interview with Kate Messner, author of the brand-new  SUGAR AND ICE ( Walker, 2010) and THE BRILLIANT FALL OF GIANNA Z. ( Walker 2010  ).

Here, Kate generously discusses writing resilience – having it, pumping it up, and reinforcing its importance in the writers’ journey.

If you struggle with resilience, note how even a natural  optimist as Kate is chooses the way she speaks to herself about certain writing events – you can make those choices, too, particularly if you learn and practice the technique of “disputing” pessimistic thinking.

THE IRREPRESSIBLE WRITER: Kate, do you consider yourself a natural optimist, or do you have to work at an optimistic attitude and staying a resilient writer?

KATE MESSNER: I’m naturally pretty optimistic, but truth be told, it’s easy for the publishing industry to make a pessimist of anyone, I think. The journey to a debut novel can be a long one, and as rejections mount, it can be tough to keep that optimistic attitude. I think the best advice I ever heard about this was from a fellow author who suggested that writers interpret each rejection not as a “No,” but simply as a “Not yet.”

TIW: Great advice! What are the specific difficulties you have struggled (and/or continue to struggle) with as part of your writing journey?

KM: Time is always the biggest issue for me, since I also teach middle school full time and have a family. I generally write from 9-11 each night after my kids are in bed, but there are nights when I’m reluctant to open my keyboard, thinking, “Oh, it’s late…I won’t have time to get much done, so I won’t bother.”

TIW: How have you handled these difficulties? What helps? What doesn’t help?

KM: I find that whatever story I tell myself about my writing tends to come true.  If I let myself think, “There’s not time to write anything good,” then there’s not.  But if I tell myself, “Just write for an hour anyway. Something good will come of it,” that’s usually right, too.

TIW: What is the single most important part of your life (this could be a phrase, a person, a group) that helps you reinforce your resilience as a writer?

KM: Two things: my family and spending time outside.  My husband and kids help me remember at the end of the day that a book is just that… a book… and that even if I wrote it, I’m not defined as a person by what anyone – agent, editor, reviewer, or reader – thinks of it. My husband and kids are also an inspiration on another level – all three are hard-working and tenacious.  Watching them, especially the kids, makes me want to have an attitude that’s just as positive.

Spending time outside is another gift that helps me to put the world of writing in perspective, as I think it can feel like it’s swallowing you up sometimes. A walk in the woods works wonders.

TIW: How do you see (or not see) your own beliefs about and/or experience with resilience figuring into your characters or stories. Do you want to highlight aspects of resilience deliberately? Or do you find that resilience is simply part of how our characters have to evolve in order to create strong stories?

KM: I’m not sure I ever set out to write stories about resilience, but all my books do have that in common.  My agent pointed out to me a while back that even though my books are all different from one another, all of my characters have the common goal of finding their place in the world, on their own terms, and that involves a fair amount of resilience, trying and failing, and trying again.  With Gianna Z. it was finding a way to get her school leaf collection project done on her own terms. With Sugar and Ice, Claire had to overcome obstacles in her new skating life and ultimately decide if this was indeed a dream she wanted to choose for herself.

TIW: Is there anything else about persisting, and staying a resilient writer, that you’d like to share?

KM: I like Eleanor Roosevelt’s quote, “No one can make you feel inferior without your consent,” and I think that’s really important to remember in a writing life.  Someone else will always have better luck with submissions, better sales, a better marketing plan, a better font, nicer cookies at the launch party…you name it.  It helps me to remind myself that I’m in it for the writing…for the joy of telling stories.  It helps so much to keep that in mind.

TIW: Thanks so much for sharing all your thoughts and feelings, Kate! Warmest wishes for the success of SUGAR AND ICE!

Jenny is the author of the young adult novel QUEEN OF SECRETS which the Horn Book called “a powerful story.” She is also the author of the humorous chapter book THIRD GRADE BABY. Jenny lives in Riverwoods, Illinois with her husband and three children.

THE IRREPRESSIBLE WRITER: What are the specific difficulties you have struggled (continue to struggle) with as part of your writing journey?

Well, first there is simply getting myself to start writing. This is often a daily challenge and I think my biggest challenge. It’s so easy to procrastinate to the point where there isn’t enough time left in the day to get any actual writing done. After that, the thing I have the most trouble with is when a book is released and all the turbulent emotions that go along with that. I find the process (which I’ve only gone through twice) makes me feel extremely raw and vulnerable.

As for the stuff in between, the point I get to with each manuscript where I believe it cannot be fixed, or that I’m not good enough to fix it…well for today at least I feel as though I’m at a point in my writing journey where I can understand and recognize that as a stage in the process even while I’m in it. (Although I’m not in it right now, so that answer might be different if you ask me a few months from now.)

TIW: How have you handled these difficulties? What helps? What doesn’t help?

The getting started with writing is one that I am always looking for new ways to handle. At the moment, working with a timer has been extremely helpful. I set the timer to the amount of time, push go and write without break until it goes off. I used to do an hour but lately have tried the Pomodoro Technique which advocates repeat sessions of 25 minutes with varying breaks between and I think that works really well for me. But ultimately I think it’s about fostering the habit of writing for me. When I get into a groove writing everyday it’s much easier to stay in the groove. When life gets in the way for more than a few days it’s very hard to get back into my writing zone.

Alas, I haven’t solved this problem for myself yet. The best I can do is not beat myself up about it and do the best I can.

Now for the challenges of a book release: I don’t think I’m quite as far along in dealing with this one. The whole process really throws me for a loop, the extremes of ego inflation and deflation are exhausting and completely useless, actually. Neither can help me grow as a writer. I try as best I can to keep distance between my self and my work but other than repeating that as a mantra and turning off Google alerts, I’m not sure I’ve figured out to much about how to deal with the sense of exposure it provokes in me. Hopefully I’ll get a lot more chances to grow and learn about it in the future.

TIW: What is the single most important part of your life (this could be a phrase, a person, a group) that helps you reinforce your resilience as a writer?

I don’t know if I can point to one single thing. What helps me get through is always different depending on the day, the thought, the issue. But one thing I’ve learned in recent years that I do think has been extremely valuable has to do with the nature of thoughts and feelings.

First, thoughts are just thoughts, not truths and that they can be examined and disputed. This might sounds obvious, but it wasn’t until recently that I learned if I had the thought “this writing is terrible” that I didn’t just have to believe it. I could respond to my own thought. “This is a first draft, I’m just exploring the story right now not writing perfect sentences.”

Second, feelings are transient. When I feel low about a review I know that I’m only going to feel that way for an hour or so and then I will feel better. This again might seem obvious, but I truly used to think that if I felt bad about something, I would feel that way forever. Knowing that I won’t makes it much easier to get through it.

TIW: How do you see (or not see) your own beliefs about and/or experience with resilience figuring into your characters or stories? Do you want to highlight aspects of resilience deliberately? or do you find that resilience is simply part of how our characters have to evolve in order to create strong stories?

I don’t know that I’ve ever thought about it in terms of my characters. After the fact I can certainly look at my stories and see that some characters have more resilience than others, or how lack of resilience caused problems in characters lives, but I think this is something that just comes about naturally. Stories are about big moments in character’s lives, changes and conflicts, so how resilient a character is has to come in to play, but I’d prefer to let this evolve organically rather than try to demonstrate or teach.

TIW: Thanks for sharing so much with us, Jenny. You validate so many important points – that feelings are transient; that not beating yourself up is always Step One; that negative self-talk is often not true, and can and should be challenged; and that maintaining resilience is a journey. Best of luck with QUEEN OF SECRETS and your future work!

In addition, though, Kathi’s responses to my questions are superb examples of the creative brain’s response to negative and positive thinking and emotion. You’ll see one after the other example of the decision to learn and think in heartfelt positive ways, and its direct result – opening the brain to the capacities and strengths that fuel good writing.

Kathi is a graduate of the Vermont College MFA Program in Writing for Children and Young Adults. In addition to writing, she works part-time as an occupational therapist. In the past, she has worked with teens in crisis and has publications in a variety of occupational therapy journals and books. Currently, she lives with her husband, son and their cat in Oak Park, Illinois. SHATTERED is her debut novel.

Of special note:

Kathi will be signing copies of SHATTERED at Borders in Oak Park (1144 Lake St.) on Saturday, June 5th, at 2 PM.

She’ll be presenting at the  Southeast Wisconsin Festival of Books on June 18-19 at the University of  Wisconsin-Waukesha.

THE IRREPRESSIBLE WRITER: What are the specific difficulties you have struggled (continue to struggle) with as part of your writing journey? Be as specific as possible, please.

Over the years, I’ve struggled with a number of things. One is self-doubt. The negative thoughts that seep into my brain: what if this is a stupid thing to write about? or what if this is a dumb direction to take the novel?

Another difficulty is when life gets in the way, like when my in-laws each went through heart surgery or when my son was treated with chemotherapy for a rare kidney disease. Even though I was there helping, and in my son’s situation, managing his care, I still had pockets of time to write. But I was distracted, worried and scared and it’s challenging to be creative when you’re feeling like that.

Lastly, the very nature of the publishing business is an ongoing test of my patience. We writers send stuff out and might not hear back for a year. Once an editor actually responded to my submission 15 months from the time I sent her my manuscript. Also, when the replies finally come, there’s a lot more of “No” than there is “Yes, I’d love to publish you!”

All of these struggles have forced me into a process of survival—of learning to keep my spirits up. When any or all of these challenges take me into my negativity, it’s dangerous because I stop feeling inspired and in this state, nothing interesting shows up on the page. Or worse, it effects my motivation to work, leaving me with a blank page.

TIW: How have you handled these difficulties? What helps? What doesn’t help?

In terms of self doubt, it really helped to complete the Vermont College MFA Program in Writing for Children and Young Adults. There I learned that ideas are worth exploring. So maybe the novel would be better in present tense than past like it’s currently written in. Instead of getting stuck in self-doubt, I’ve learned to try a chapter in present tense and to trust myself when I finally make a judgment call regarding which direction to pursue.

Also, I’ve learned the value of trusting other writers to give me feedback. I might be feeling unsure about a character, but when I give it to my critique group and they have favorable things to say about that person, it gives me a boost to continue developing the character. Or if they’re not on board with the character, I trust them and either give up on the character or use their helpful suggestions to do a better job of conveying that character.

When I’m experiencing tough life situations, I’m gentle with myself and just try to encourage myself to get some stuff down on the page. I tell myself anything at all will do. Usually something comes and I’m able to go with it. Stories are compelling. In this way, writing a story has a sort of healing property because I usually feel this pull to go forward to find something out, or to see the character through something.

In terms of the publishing business, I’ve had to come up with some strategies for coping with it, because I do want to be a part of it. One is I try to have a number of submissions out there, like entering short story contests, submitting stories or non-fiction essays to literary journals, and submitting my novels. Each is an opportunity to hope, as well as a way to knock on different doors.

Also, I don’t send anything out unless I have alternative places to send it. So when it comes back as a rejection, I don’t have to think about where to submit next. I give myself 24 hours to feel sad, disappointed, upset and then I make myself send it right back out there. In this way, I honor how I feel about the rejection, but prevent myself from getting into a negative state.

Finally, I keep a gratitude journal, meaning at the end of each day, I try to write down 5 positive things in that day. In this way, I keep my mind in good spirits, which supports my creativity.

What doesn’t help is letting myself sit with the disappointment for too long of a time, because it moves into negativity. That’s why I have the 24-hour rule for myself. After 24 hours, I have to let it go. Interestingly, I usually get bored after about 21 hours with feeling blue. I’m ready to move on. So I capitalize on that by sending out the manuscript to another place.

TIW: What is the single most important part of your life (this could be a phrase, a person, a group) that helps you reinforce your resilience as a writer?

Most important to me is my little family: my husband, son and cat. I tell them right away when a rejection letter has arrived. My husband usually hugs me. My son tells me he’s sorry. I sit with them and hold my cat. I talk about what I was hoping for and what is lost. Usually this is for just a few minutes. Not being alone and also, feeling loved balances out the sadness. I know that an opportunity is lost but I still have them. It puts it all into perspective.

TIW: How do you see (or not see) your own beliefs about and/or experience with resilience figuring into your characters or stories? Do you want to highlight aspects of resilience deliberately? or do you find that resilience is simply part of how our characters have to evolve in order to create strong stories?

While writing one of the drafts of my young adult novel, Shattered, my son was going through chemo. I remember feeling so stressed out about his illness while trying to write Cassie (the main character) beyond her dad breaking her violin. At one point, I paused and thought we both need to develop some resilience!

I wasn’t sure how to develop it in myself or to give her some. So I consulted the American Psychological Association’s website. They have a listing of “10 Ways to Build Resilience.” One strategy is to look to the future and think about how things might improve. For Cassie, I focused the plot on how to get her a new violin. It was a way to help her to be an actor in her own story, to “take decisive actions”, which is another strategy on the list.

For myself, I began imagining my son playing baseball again, going to school every day, being with his friends. These visualizations of him as a healthy person eased some of my anxiety. And by working to give my novel a new shape, I kept dreaming of getting published.

Cassie eventually got another violin. My son is healthy, doing normal stuff: taking baseball lessons, going to movies with friends, planning for college next fall. I got lucky and heard a publisher say “yes” to Shattered.

My small study of resilience offered a lot of options for plotting, and eventually, for transforming Cassie. It helped me to hang in there to finish yet another draft of Shattered. It is what supports me to take the risk of beginning a new novel.

TIW: Thanks, Kathi – for sharing so openly, and for the power and intensity of your work!

Here, a Houston-based critique group, Will Write For Cake generously shares their thoughts, feelings, struggles and tools for maintaining resilience. First, meet WWFC’s members (and check the linked sites for their book credits): Laura Edge, Doris Fisher, Lynne Kelly Hoenig, Miriam King, Christina Mandelski, Monica Vavra, and Tammy Waldrop are committed, hard-working and talented children’s writers. They meet every other week and their group has become a devoted, intense, challenging and supportive environment for all of them.

As you read, note the wide variety of concerns and solutions they share, as well as some similarities. WWFC’s experiences confirm that in our individuality, we discover and use solutions for creating and maintaining resilience specific to our own needs. Even more, specific to our own needs at a particular moment in time.

THE IRREPRESSIBLE WRITER: WHAT ISSUES GET IN THE WAY OF YOUR WRITING MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE?

Chris:…The simple fact that writing is hard…When creating stories, I can look at something a million times and still see ways to change it. It can get frustrating, and sometimes it’s just easier to say, “Naw, I’m not gonna do that to myself today!”

Miriam: I need mental space: time to dream, think, conceptualize…time for my thoughts to fritter and wander. Unfortunately, life doesn’t always provide that…

Lynne: Sometimes I think it’s that I have too many good books! I’m also easily distracted…Also,[when I write I begin] wondering if what I’ve written is any good…being unsure of what the character needs to do next, where the story’s going does make me sit and stare at the computer screen at times. Finally, like most of us, I have to be away [from writing] for paying jobs.

Tammy: I have a full-time job, huge garden, husband and teenage son. Plus I direct a music group and teach a Bible class…

Monica:More than anything else, I struggle with self-doubt…You name it, I worry about it…It can be a terrible downward spiral…

Laura: Discouragement…After pouring my heart into a story and having it rejected, it’s often difficult to keep working on it or any other writing project. Self-doubt sucks the life out of my enthusiasm and passion for writing…

Doris:Life often changes my plans [for writing]…What stops me from writing are thoughts of what I should be doing instead…There’s no end…But a writer must rise above the mundane and dive into writing bliss when the mood strikes.

TIW: SPECIFICALLY, HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH THOSE OBSTACLES?

Chris:I have to put the proverbial gun to my back and force myself to sit down and write, to overcome my fear of the “hard”. Once I get going…writing is exhilarating…

Miriam: I try to…have that quiet creative time before the day begins to crowd in and beg for my attention.

Lynne:If I’m feeling stuck, I’ll do some free writing with paper and pen…It helps me get away from my editing-as-I-go tendencies…[And] I type some quick notes at the end of a document so I’ll keep writing, but remember ideas later…I also keep little notebooks…and [use the]button on the internet that turns off the computer.

Tammy:The only way I can get to my writing…is to put it on the schedule.

[TIW: I am really “big” on this technique. Putting anything on your schedule is an intentional activity, and nudges you gently to consider that time as sacred.]

Monica: Self-doubt is tough. It’s a constant nag, and I’ve never found a magic bullet to alleviate it.[CG:…and there isn’t one!]…Chocolate helps. So do long walks with my dog. I’d NEVER get through it without the love and support of friends…[But I try] to ignore it and keep writing…The joy of writing trumps whatever negativity I’m feeling.

Laura: I talk over specific issues with my critique group. I take a break from writing and do something I love – read, watch a movie, go to the ballet or theatre – anything connected with stories. I plan my next trip. I set my writing aside and volunteer and work with children to take my focus off myself and [put it on] others.

Doris: I’m a firm believer in lists…a writing “to do” list that includes writing projects, promotion, website, author visits, even deleted email and saving documents. The house “to do” list includes [everything else!] and the weekly trips to Gold’s Gym! [For me] lists lead to organization, and organization leads to accomplishment.

TIW:  IF YOU HAD ONE PLACE TO REACH OUT TO FOR EMOTIONAL SUPPORT, WHERE WOULD IT BE?

Chris:Will Write For Cake, absolutely!The “Reply All” button figures prominently in our frequent emails, because you never know [which person] may have input that might encourage or help. When I was going through the process of signing with my agent…and the sale of my book…no one else really “got it.” I owe [my critique partners] big time.

Miriam: [My] wonderful writer’s group. We exchange group emails several times a week. It helps to know what other writers’ experiences are.

Lynne: Critique group, for sure. Other friends can be supportive, but they don’t “get it.”

Tammy: My writing group. They understand the craft of writing, the struggles and joys that go along with it.

Monica: I reach out to all of [the members of my critique group].

Laura: My critique group. Friends provide love and support, but they don’t understand the gut-wrencdhing agony that goes into writing.

Doris. Definitely my writing group. No question about it. We care deeply about each other, not just as writers.

TIW: WHAT  SPECIFIC  ACTIONS OR THOUGHTS HELP YOU PERSEVERE AND STAY RESILIENT?

Chris: Four things: we’re invested in writing and in getting published. We’ve got talent. We’re honest, very straightforward with our critique. And, lastly, cake!

We’ve become good friends, and there’s no defensiveness, no guile, no jealousy, no selfish, I’m-better-than-you attitudes. When you find yourself in a group like this, you celebrate it as often as possible!

Miriam: The group helps define the commitment I’ve made to myself. The feedback gives me confidence [whether it’s affirming or constructively critical] in my present ability and my potential for improvement.

Lynne:Because [all my group members] are great writers and great people, I trust their feedback. Seeing [others’] successes is inspiring. The love of writing keeps us going.

Tammy: We all bring something different to the table that strengthens the others.

Monica: First, I like my friends to empathize…[When I find] my resilience lagging…it helped that my [critique group friends] acknowledge how awful and soul-sucking revision can be. We griped and moaned together. And then they cheered me on. Specific tips [really help].

Laura: Connecting with your group on a regular basis, hearing other works in progress…stimulates creativity.

Doris:Hope. Without hope, submissions and rejections would beat us down. Group provides…suggestions and ideas, but we [also] life each other up when bad news occurs and fight for each other when needed.

What connects me to group? The insistence that I can do…

Wow. Thanks, WWFC!

Take a look at the specific skills reflected in this critique group: from “forcing myself to sit in the chair and write”, to mind-focusing distraction, to schedules and lists, to the absolutely essential support of one another, WWFC keeps themselves focused and hard-working with mutual investment, talent and honesty.

And I can hear them telling me now: “And don’t forget the cake!”